The lost art of conversation - an interview with the Harmonious Gentlemen
The lost art of conversation - an interview with the Harmonious Gentlemen
10 Qs with the podcasters who seek great conversations in a noisy world
The Harmonious Gentlemen want to have better conversations. The trio hails from central Alberta, and host a popular podcast. They tackle issues that tend to divide people, convinced we can find harmony in a chaotic world.
It might seem counterintuitive to conduct an interview with prolific podcasters without any microphones. But that’s exactly what I did when I sent ten questions to Tyler Capton, Graham Langridge, and Chris Kooman (yes, my older brother), who just launched their seventh season.
I asked the gents about recording audio in a hot tub, their dream interviews, and how we can all have better conversations.
I love origin stories. How did your podcast about finding unity in a divided world through conversation come to be?
At one time, the three of us worked together at Gateway Christian School in Red Deer. Our roles were different, but when we would chat together, we were often recommending podcasts to listen to. We all loved the format, and were turning to them more and more for news, political information, true crime stories, humour, and entertainment.
One day, one of us said: “Why wouldn’t we just try this ourselves?” Chris’ brothers had a recording studio in town, so we got together and hit record! There is audio evidence of the first episode somewhere, but it was fairly pathetic. The number of times we had to hit stop, re-record, and quit laughing was too many to count. But we stuck with it, worked on the format, got comfortable hearing our own voices, and that set us on our way!
Check out their latest episode:
Unfair question: What episode stands out as the most memorable or important for you, individually?
Graham: Our interview with (local musician and artist) Ryan Langois was memorable in that it was just a lovely, deep conversation with someone outside of the podcast. I love having guests, and I think Ryan’s interview just made me excited to continue to seek out interesting people. I also thought that we asked really good questions and kept the conversation moving along. (Almost like real interviewers!)
Chris: We had an opportunity to speak with Fr. Cristino Bouvette, a Catholic priest in Calgary. He helped establish the St. Francis Xavier Chaplaincy for university students and young adults in the Diocese of Calgary. He is of Cree-Metis and Italian descent, and this put him in an unique position to be part of the Canadian team that welcomed Pope Francis to Canada for his penitential pilgrimage. Fr. Cristino’s life, experience, work, and good nature were so interesting to learn from as he spoke to us about many topics, including residential schools in Canada.
Tyler: My favourite guest has been Homeboy Sandman, a prolific underground rapper from Brooklyn, New York. I had been a fan for a long time and couldn’t help but fantasize about having him on the pod. I remember being kinda stunned while we talked to him. He’s one of the most talented rappers doing it, with some of the most authentic, honest, and intelligent lyrics. Having him on the podcast gave us the confidence to dream big when it comes to guests, and to really appreciate the opportunities we’ve had to talk to cool people we wouldn’t have otherwise. A couple other moments that stand out to me are Chris’s confession about modelling, Graham taking us to professional wrestling, and our strange email relationship with Tim Alion.
What have you noticed about the way people talk about the things that matter to them? How are we doing as a society with discourse in these times?
Instead of speaking on behalf of society, we can maybe just speak for ourselves. Often we are choosing topics to discuss with each other that we think could be contentious, or maybe an area we (one of us) has had trouble discussing with others in the past: politics, aspects of religion, troubling things from history, among others. It may be topics that we have seen others have trouble talking about, or maybe an idea that we just think would be interesting to learn more about and discuss.
It is hard to say if there are more topics that are off limits? However with the modern day dilemma of 24 hour connection, it does seem that everybody is talking about everything all of the time. It is probably more of a concern how they are talking about things.
Questions like: Can we hold differing opinions and still respect one another? When one is having a conversation, is the end goal to change the other person’s mind? When you are speaking to someone are you really listening or just waiting for your turn to talk? Should there be topics that we avoid with family, friends, or in polite conversation because we just do not have the skills to navigate the details? Do we create empathy and space within conversations to hear alternative perspectives? When we hear something new, or something that we do not agree with, are we OK with that, or do we feel threatened and defensive?
These kinds of ideas are what we are battling with ourselves, and our running goal is to kind of face these things head on. There are still topics we avoid, or discussions we tread too lightly (or maybe too heavily!) into, but that is all part of the fun, and the challenge, for us - and really, the reason why we keep recording episodes!
You’ve released over 120 episodes since 2018, which is an impressive feat given that almost half all podcasts globally release 3 episodes or less. What’s been the secret to your longevity and to continually pressing record?
Graham: That’s a tough question to answer beyond the simple fact that I still love doing it. I get excited when it’s time to get together with the guys, and somehow editing each episode is still enjoyable. It’s also a community of close friends and listeners that I feel encouraged by. It’s an outlet for conversation, critical thinking, and even my passion for music production.
Chris: Graham is also our sound engineer and producer. He does all of the work to edit, add music, and basically make the podcast sound presentable. We all show up to chat, but his work extends beyond the two hour discussion (because he has to edit it down to one…). We keep asking each other each year if we are all still interested in doing it, and so far, we keep saying yes! Maybe it gives us a reason to hang out?
When you look back to when you started podcasting and ventured into this unique territory of platforming unity and learning and hope (rather than division, ignorance, and negativity), do you notice any shifts in your own thinking on key topics? (Another way to ask this, is, “Are there any TSN turning points, personally, in the way you think?”)
We have reflected on this quite a bit during our conversations with each other. When we meet to record, a lot of our discussions are ‘off air’ - but lately we have talked about how much we are learning personally from the experience, and how we attempt to take the skills of asking questions, seeking first to understand, honouring different perspectives, and bringing empathy into conversations that we have with others.
Certainly we do not do that perfectly, but the challenge is personal and important. Modelling that conversation has always been the goal. When we receive feedback that people enjoy that, or feel it has made a difference in the way they think they can approach conversations, that’s just the best news ever. We certainly seem to be living in a world that not only differs on many key points, but maybe just as critically we never seem to get a break from the discourse/discord. 24 hour news channels, social media, and constant connection have created feedback loops and echo chambers, and the algorithms that populate them are certainly cause for concern.
It seems that every year or season we try to define “Harmony” and those definitions are evolving. Awareness of that fact, and a desire to still find community in the midst of differences is an ideal that we each personally want to pursue, and to commit ourselves to doing. When we can bring in guests that we see reaching into difficult parts of life with grace and determination, we are inspired to hear their struggles, their stories, and to learn from them how that can influence us.
You’ve recorded at a lot of different locations: in pubs, in studio, in living rooms and porches, and recently from Graham’s hot tub. What’s your favourite place to conduct a conversation?
Tyler: My favourite place to record is on the front porch, during the fall, with a fire going, and some craft beer or whiskey at hand.
Graham: Something about getting up super early in the morning for a large plate of delicious greasy breakfast food with the other gentlemen is magic. Phil’s Diner!
Chris: I like the whiskey and Phil’s breakfasts - so yes to both of those places. We have also had a chance to record at our sponsors’ locations (which happen to be a Brewery and a restaurant) which is pretty awesome as well.
At the threat of sounding like the Ms. America pageant, for each of you, if you could sit down with any person from any era, past or present, who would you record a conversation with and why?
Chris: We each have a special guest on a list I think, that if we could get, we would just retire the podcast - we would just feel like we’d peaked. For me that person is Brené Brown. I love her voice, her passion, her empathy - the way she speaks and writes. I would love a chance to visit with her some day, to learn from her and ask her questions. She has a way of making people feel heard and valued that is incredibly unique. Watching a video or reading a book from someone like that is amazing, but being in conversation with them - so much better! Someone from time gone by would be C.S. Lewis. For many of the same reasons. I would also just love to talk to him about his Space Trilogy.
Tyler: I like Chris’s answers, but I’ll add one more. I have been impacted greatly by the writings of Fr. Richard Rohr. One of my earliest “Recommendations” on the podcast was for listeners to subscribe to the daily meditations from the Center for Action and Contemplation. Richard Rohr’s love for peace, justice, and inclusivity, has helped me reconstruct my faith and put words to my experience of Christ in the world. He also has a great voice for podcasts and a really warm laugh.
Graham: Usually when I consider this question I immediately consider the many musicians who have influenced me throughout the years. There are many to choose from, but at this point I would love to chat with Justin Vernon. His endless creativity is captivating, but beyond that he is ever evolving into new ways of making music/art. He is prolific and also very collaborative. If I could be 1% of the musician that he is I’d be a happy guy.
Chris (again): We have reached out to some guests that we have heard on the radio, in conferences, authors of books we have read, etc. We are amazed at the generous way people have agreed to be on - we have a very high attendance rate! Lesson: we need to keep asking. It is also amazing to have people as guests recommend a guest to have on, that has led to some cool opportunities as well.
In an age of isolation, a lot of people are losing the art of conversation. What are some tips you can offer about how to strike up an interesting conversation?
Tyler: Show interest in other people. Ask a ton of questions. Fight the urge to steer a conversation in a particular direction and let someone else take the wheel.
Chris: Curiosity can be a real game-changer. If you are asking questions, like Tyler mentioned, and doing so from a place of truly wanting to learn more - about the topic, or the other person, or their point of view - you can really get to a place where you are asking tough questions, or approaching what may be considered ‘difficult conversations’ with humility and permission to keep pressing on. I want to get better at this until it just becomes the way I talk to people.
What advice would you give to someone who wants to jump into podcasting in 2024?
Podcasting is a medium that allows people with an idea to get close to their audience by recording conversations, and posting them online. When we record, it feels quite personal. Knowing that listeners are engaged with what we do, and will write an email, or connect with our Insta page is special, too. Starting up doesn’t require a huge investment - a good computer, some microphones, and a capable software package will get you there.
Having a theme or idea that can carry you from one episode to the next (and beyond the average 3) is necessary. Have a plan for what you want to talk about, who you might want to include, and how often you are going to record. We have found that word of mouth has been enough to get some momentum going. There are ways to boost listenership - but until you get started and have something consistent, we would suggest waiting for that. The important thing is knowing that you can freely talk about your topic, and planning on sticking with that to see early success.
[Also,] you should not be afraid to fail. It will take time for everything to just click. Our early episodes are extremely rough, but because it was enjoyable enough, we pushed through and gradually figured out what works.
What can listeners expect for your upcoming season?
In our upcoming seventh season, we want to be better. Becoming more Harmonious is still our ultimate goal, and we’ve named a few specific areas in which we’d like to grow - empathy, honesty, humility. In order to do this properly, we’ve committed to a theme of Story and Struggle. If an episode idea doesn’t feature a compelling story, or a topic that requires struggle, we won’t do it. We’ll revisit some topics that beg for a deeper conversation, and tackle some that we’ve avoided in the past. Expect some interesting guests, more vulnerability from the gents, and hopefully some laughs along the way.
Bonus Q: What books or podcasts are you consuming right now that you can't get enough of?
Tyler: I have really enjoyed the Canadaland podcast, and other series produced under the same name, for a dose of news, media criticism, and journalistic storytelling. I’m in the middle of Otherland, a sci-fi novel by Tad Williams, and I’m enjoying it so far!
Chris: I can’t get enough of the podcast Ologies. Alie Ward interviews scientists studying space, beer, beauty, bees, you name it! She’s humorous and smart, and the way people are so passionate about the things they study is inspiring. There are over 400 episodes, so you’ll never run out! I’m currently reading Terry Hayes’ spy novel The Year of the Locust, recommended by my wonderful brother, Andrew.
Graham: I am re-reading Sapiens: A graphic History Parts 1 and 2 again. I love the original book, but the graphic novels are so much fun to go through more than once. It’s amazing how much information can fit on a single page along with the amazing illustrations. I should also check out his new book!
About Harmonious Gentlemen
The Harmonious Gentlemen Podcast is about embracing challenging topics and conversations. In each episode, the gents tackle an issue that divides much of society, and by looking at it from different perspectives, they explore the possibilities for harmony in a chaotic world.
Learn more about them on their website and follow them on Instagram. Listen on Apple Podcasts or Spotify.
Have a great idea for a guest? You can email them your idea at harmoniousgentlemen@gmail.com
